Discussion:
General Confusion after Initial Steps
(too old to reply)
jjrobert
2008-02-12 21:17:02 UTC
Permalink
I apologize in advance for what will be a long question, but I have to think
there are others out there who are in the same boat and that you'll either
point me to a FAQ I've missed or give enough information in your reply to
help a bunch of us get past square one. Or maybe I'm at least at square 2.

OK, so I ran MSSA for Access to migrate an Access 2000 .mdb to SSE 2005,
told it I wanted to link tables and I got LOTS of errors for the queries -
most of which seems to have to do with append or update queries, ORDER BY,
etc.

Having read the FAQs and such, I'm not surprised by any of those errors. In
fact, after watching the Access 2003 Upsizing Wizard hang every time, I was
overjoyed to finally be getting somewhere.

But I'm terribly confused as to how to go about making the fixes. NOT what
the appropriate fixes are, but HOW and WHERE to make them.

And frankly, I'm still not sure what MSSA actually DID.

To put it another way, I think "if all goes well", my Access application is
supposed to function as before, except that the data will reside in SQL
Server (and things might be slower, need tuning, etc.)

When all goes not-so-well, though, I'm unclear as to whether I'm supposed to
edit the Access queries and try the migration again, or whether I'm just
supposed to edit the generated views in SSMA and apply the changes (or just
edit them directly in SSE in a tool like SQL Server Management Studio Express
or MS SQL Maestro).

The latter makes more sense, since the remedies proposed for most of the
errors seem to be things I can only DO in SSE. But having fiddled with some
of the views, I'm starting to wonder.

I sort of understand what linking the TABLES does, but what is MSSA actually
doing for each QUERY? When my Access application executes a query, is it
executing the original access query, or is it now somehow executing the "SSE
query" (or view, or whatever) that MSSA generated?

To try and answer this for myself, I edited one of the new views in SSE to
give a wrong answer, committed the change, and opened and ran my application.
I did not get the expected wrong answer, which leads me to believe that my
application might be running its same old query.

Is there a step in the migration that modifies my Access application to
point to the new views, and I'm just getting too many errors for SSMA to get
that far?

Is there something besides committing the change in SSE that I should be
doing before I run my Access application again?

Any and all help will be much appreciated.
-Jeff
unknown
2008-02-13 04:43:45 UTC
Permalink
I don't know much about MSSA-Access (never used it myself) but when you are
upsizing to a MDB or an ACCDB database file with ODBC linked tables, you
don't need to upsize any of the queries at all and in fact, none of the
upsized queries will be used by default. This is different from an ADP
project, where ODBC linked tables cannot be used and upsized queries are
mandatory to run your application.

For simple queries, you shouldn't have any performance problem because JET
will be able to construct a proper T-SQL query from a local query and run it
directly on SQL-Server; however, with more complex queries, JET won't be
able to do so and the performance will start dropping like a stone. If this
is the case, then your next step should be to upsize these queries to
SQL-Server and use linked Views and passthrough queries in order to increase
the performance. This is why MSSA is trying to upsizing some of the queries
beforehand in order to save you some time and effort later.

Passthrough queries are read-only and by default, linked Views are also
read-only but you can make them updatable by using the procedure described
in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/209123/en-us .
--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Post by jjrobert
I apologize in advance for what will be a long question, but I have to think
there are others out there who are in the same boat and that you'll either
point me to a FAQ I've missed or give enough information in your reply to
help a bunch of us get past square one. Or maybe I'm at least at square 2.
OK, so I ran MSSA for Access to migrate an Access 2000 .mdb to SSE 2005,
told it I wanted to link tables and I got LOTS of errors for the queries -
most of which seems to have to do with append or update queries, ORDER BY,
etc.
Having read the FAQs and such, I'm not surprised by any of those errors.
In
fact, after watching the Access 2003 Upsizing Wizard hang every time, I was
overjoyed to finally be getting somewhere.
But I'm terribly confused as to how to go about making the fixes. NOT what
the appropriate fixes are, but HOW and WHERE to make them.
And frankly, I'm still not sure what MSSA actually DID.
To put it another way, I think "if all goes well", my Access application is
supposed to function as before, except that the data will reside in SQL
Server (and things might be slower, need tuning, etc.)
When all goes not-so-well, though, I'm unclear as to whether I'm supposed to
edit the Access queries and try the migration again, or whether I'm just
supposed to edit the generated views in SSMA and apply the changes (or just
edit them directly in SSE in a tool like SQL Server Management Studio Express
or MS SQL Maestro).
The latter makes more sense, since the remedies proposed for most of the
errors seem to be things I can only DO in SSE. But having fiddled with some
of the views, I'm starting to wonder.
I sort of understand what linking the TABLES does, but what is MSSA actually
doing for each QUERY? When my Access application executes a query, is it
executing the original access query, or is it now somehow executing the "SSE
query" (or view, or whatever) that MSSA generated?
To try and answer this for myself, I edited one of the new views in SSE to
give a wrong answer, committed the change, and opened and ran my application.
I did not get the expected wrong answer, which leads me to believe that my
application might be running its same old query.
Is there a step in the migration that modifies my Access application to
point to the new views, and I'm just getting too many errors for SSMA to get
that far?
Is there something besides committing the change in SSE that I should be
doing before I run my Access application again?
Any and all help will be much appreciated.
-Jeff
jjrobert
2008-02-13 16:47:04 UTC
Permalink
So - aside from performance of course - does that mean I can ignore the
query-related errors in SSMA and just focus on cases where the tables or data
didn't convert?

Can Access really sort things out with SQL Server well enough for the old
queries to get by?

Does anyone know if there's an option in SSMA to not even try to convert the
queries and reports, so that all those errors and warnings aren't generated?

-Jeff
Post by unknown
I don't know much about MSSA-Access (never used it myself) but when you are
upsizing to a MDB or an ACCDB database file with ODBC linked tables, you
don't need to upsize any of the queries at all and in fact, none of the
upsized queries will be used by default. This is different from an ADP
project, where ODBC linked tables cannot be used and upsized queries are
mandatory to run your application.
For simple queries, you shouldn't have any performance problem because JET
will be able to construct a proper T-SQL query from a local query and run it
directly on SQL-Server; however, with more complex queries, JET won't be
able to do so and the performance will start dropping like a stone. If this
is the case, then your next step should be to upsize these queries to
SQL-Server and use linked Views and passthrough queries in order to increase
the performance. This is why MSSA is trying to upsizing some of the queries
beforehand in order to save you some time and effort later.
Passthrough queries are read-only and by default, linked Views are also
read-only but you can make them updatable by using the procedure described
in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/209123/en-us .
--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Post by jjrobert
I apologize in advance for what will be a long question, but I have to think
there are others out there who are in the same boat and that you'll either
point me to a FAQ I've missed or give enough information in your reply to
help a bunch of us get past square one. Or maybe I'm at least at square 2.
OK, so I ran MSSA for Access to migrate an Access 2000 .mdb to SSE 2005,
told it I wanted to link tables and I got LOTS of errors for the queries -
most of which seems to have to do with append or update queries, ORDER BY,
etc.
Having read the FAQs and such, I'm not surprised by any of those errors.
In
fact, after watching the Access 2003 Upsizing Wizard hang every time, I was
overjoyed to finally be getting somewhere.
But I'm terribly confused as to how to go about making the fixes. NOT what
the appropriate fixes are, but HOW and WHERE to make them.
And frankly, I'm still not sure what MSSA actually DID.
To put it another way, I think "if all goes well", my Access application is
supposed to function as before, except that the data will reside in SQL
Server (and things might be slower, need tuning, etc.)
When all goes not-so-well, though, I'm unclear as to whether I'm supposed to
edit the Access queries and try the migration again, or whether I'm just
supposed to edit the generated views in SSMA and apply the changes (or just
edit them directly in SSE in a tool like SQL Server Management Studio Express
or MS SQL Maestro).
The latter makes more sense, since the remedies proposed for most of the
errors seem to be things I can only DO in SSE. But having fiddled with some
of the views, I'm starting to wonder.
I sort of understand what linking the TABLES does, but what is MSSA actually
doing for each QUERY? When my Access application executes a query, is it
executing the original access query, or is it now somehow executing the "SSE
query" (or view, or whatever) that MSSA generated?
To try and answer this for myself, I edited one of the new views in SSE to
give a wrong answer, committed the change, and opened and ran my application.
I did not get the expected wrong answer, which leads me to believe that my
application might be running its same old query.
Is there a step in the migration that modifies my Access application to
point to the new views, and I'm just getting too many errors for SSMA to get
that far?
Is there something besides committing the change in SSE that I should be
doing before I run my Access application again?
Any and all help will be much appreciated.
-Jeff
unknown
2008-02-13 18:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Take a look at what you have got and it should be pretty easy to see what's
useful and what's not. If you are using ODBC linked tables and Views, than
all SP are useless you are accessing them through a passthrough query (or
directly in VBA code with DAO or ADO objects) and Views that are not linked
views work the same.

The old queries can only use linked Tables and Views (and User Defined
Functions (UDF)? I don't think but maybe it's possible), so by taking a
look at the list of linked tables and views, you'll see what's useful for
your old queries and what's not.

Now, on how well Access will be able to sort things out using the old
queries and the linked tables and views, you can tell only by taking a look
with the SQL-Server Profiler in order to see what queries Access is sending
to SQL-Server. You can also try the ODBC Profiler but as far as I can
remember, using the SQL-Server Profiler is simpler in the long run.

If you don't want SSMA to try to convert some of the queries and reports,
then remove them from the MDB file before making the upsizing process.
However, as I never used SSMA myself, I cannot tell you anything more about
it but weither you are using the SSMA, the Upsizing Wizard or nothing else
but your ten little fingers, the basic principle of working with ODBC linked
tables and views is always the same.
--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Post by jjrobert
So - aside from performance of course - does that mean I can ignore the
query-related errors in SSMA and just focus on cases where the tables or data
didn't convert?
Can Access really sort things out with SQL Server well enough for the old
queries to get by?
Does anyone know if there's an option in SSMA to not even try to convert the
queries and reports, so that all those errors and warnings aren't generated?
-Jeff
Post by unknown
I don't know much about MSSA-Access (never used it myself) but when you are
upsizing to a MDB or an ACCDB database file with ODBC linked tables, you
don't need to upsize any of the queries at all and in fact, none of the
upsized queries will be used by default. This is different from an ADP
project, where ODBC linked tables cannot be used and upsized queries are
mandatory to run your application.
For simple queries, you shouldn't have any performance problem because JET
will be able to construct a proper T-SQL query from a local query and run it
directly on SQL-Server; however, with more complex queries, JET won't be
able to do so and the performance will start dropping like a stone. If this
is the case, then your next step should be to upsize these queries to
SQL-Server and use linked Views and passthrough queries in order to increase
the performance. This is why MSSA is trying to upsizing some of the queries
beforehand in order to save you some time and effort later.
Passthrough queries are read-only and by default, linked Views are also
read-only but you can make them updatable by using the procedure described
in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/209123/en-us .
--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Post by jjrobert
I apologize in advance for what will be a long question, but I have to think
there are others out there who are in the same boat and that you'll either
point me to a FAQ I've missed or give enough information in your reply to
help a bunch of us get past square one. Or maybe I'm at least at square 2.
OK, so I ran MSSA for Access to migrate an Access 2000 .mdb to SSE 2005,
told it I wanted to link tables and I got LOTS of errors for the queries -
most of which seems to have to do with append or update queries, ORDER BY,
etc.
Having read the FAQs and such, I'm not surprised by any of those errors.
In
fact, after watching the Access 2003 Upsizing Wizard hang every time, I was
overjoyed to finally be getting somewhere.
But I'm terribly confused as to how to go about making the fixes. NOT what
the appropriate fixes are, but HOW and WHERE to make them.
And frankly, I'm still not sure what MSSA actually DID.
To put it another way, I think "if all goes well", my Access
application
is
supposed to function as before, except that the data will reside in SQL
Server (and things might be slower, need tuning, etc.)
When all goes not-so-well, though, I'm unclear as to whether I'm
supposed
to
edit the Access queries and try the migration again, or whether I'm just
supposed to edit the generated views in SSMA and apply the changes (or just
edit them directly in SSE in a tool like SQL Server Management Studio Express
or MS SQL Maestro).
The latter makes more sense, since the remedies proposed for most of the
errors seem to be things I can only DO in SSE. But having fiddled with some
of the views, I'm starting to wonder.
I sort of understand what linking the TABLES does, but what is MSSA actually
doing for each QUERY? When my Access application executes a query, is it
executing the original access query, or is it now somehow executing the "SSE
query" (or view, or whatever) that MSSA generated?
To try and answer this for myself, I edited one of the new views in SSE to
give a wrong answer, committed the change, and opened and ran my application.
I did not get the expected wrong answer, which leads me to believe that my
application might be running its same old query.
Is there a step in the migration that modifies my Access application to
point to the new views, and I'm just getting too many errors for SSMA
to
get
that far?
Is there something besides committing the change in SSE that I should be
doing before I run my Access application again?
Any and all help will be much appreciated.
-Jeff
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